Jenni Catron and Les McKeown Interview

To Pivot or To Innovate?

How do we get clarity and confidence for leading through a climate we’ve never experienced before?

You’ve never led in a moment like this. I’ve never led in a moment like this.  

The word that I keep coming back to over and over is “wisdom”… in fact I got so enamored by this word that I took several hours this past weekend to do a deeper study of the word in scripture. 

What I found was hopeful. 

James 1:5 says, “If any of you lacks wisdom, you should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to you.”

Proverbs 24:6 says, “For by wise guidance you can wage your war, and in the abundance of counselors there is victory.”

To sum it up:

  1. Seek God
  2. Seek counsel of wise guidance

Today, I’m excited to bring you an interview with one of the wise counselors in my life. 

Les McKeown is the President and CEO of Predictable Success, a leading advisor on leadership and organizational development. He has started over 40 companies in his own right and was the founding partner of an incubation consulting company that advised on the creation and growth of hundreds of organizations worldwide.

Les advises CEOs and senior leaders of organizations on how to achieve scalable, sustainable growth. His clients range from large family-owned businesses to churches to Fortune 100 companies, and include the likes of Harvard University, American Express, and Chevron to name a few.

Les is the author of the Wall Street Journal and USA Today bestselling book, Predictable Success: Getting Your Organization on the Growth Track – and Keeping it There as well as the book The Synergist: How to Lead Your Team to Predictable Success

I first connected with Les’ work a number of years ago as I was leading a fast-growing organization and was quickly discovering that what worked in the early stages of the organization was not working as effectively as we were growing and attempting to scale. The Predictable Success model gave me perspective, language, and practical help in understanding how to lead us through what I learned was the “whitewater” stage of organizational life. 

As I launched 4Sight, I quickly found that the Predictable Success model is a lifesaver for every leader who is trying to understand how to lead effectively.  And earlier this year I became a Certified Licensed Practitioner of the Predictable Success model so that I could help other leaders use this powerful tool.

Today, Les joins me to talk about how a crisis impacts the stages of growth in an organization and gives us really practical help and perspective on what we need to do to respond to the headwind of crisis.

Whether you lead in ministry or business, this conversation will be incredibly helpful to you as you continue to lead well at this time.

In this video, Les will explain:

  • The predictable stages of growth (or decline) for every organization 
  • Why it is more critical than ever that we understand where our organization is in the growth stages 
  • How the headwinds of change are influencing your organization
  • What is needed from your leadership to respond to the headwind 
  • The distinction between Pivoting and Innovation
  • Why we need to “Skate to where the puck is going to be” (Bobby Orr, professional ice hockey player)
  • What questions you should be asking right now
  • How you should be aligning and leading your team to succeed through this

Wasn’t that so helpful? What I love about Les is his ability to take the complexity of organizational life and give us language and practical next steps to move forward. 

I want to encourage you to take the Lifecycle Quiz that Les referenced in our conversation. It will help you quickly assess where your organization is in the stages of growth which will equip you to understand how you best need to lead your organization and your team through this season. 


REMINDER: Take the Lifecycle Quiz based upon where you were pre-COVID.

My great passion and joy is coming alongside leaders to help you identify the obstacles inhibiting you and your team from accomplishing your mission… and Predictable Success is one of the tools that we use to help guide you in that process. I’ve had the privilege of being personally coached and trained by Les in the Predictable Success model and recently became a licensed practitioner of Predictable Success.

I would love to help you!

SPECIAL OFFER: For the first 10 people who take the Lifecyle Quiz and fill out THIS FORM, I’ll do a free 30-minute call to help you process the results of your quiz. 

Keep leading well, friends! We’re going to grow through this stronger than ever!
Jenni Catron and The 4Sight Group

Jenni Catron is a writer, speaker, and leadership coach who consults churches and non-profits to help them lead from their extraordinary best. She speaks at conferences and churches nationwide, seeking to help others develop their leadership gifts and lead confidently. As Founder and CEO of The 4Sight Group, she consults with individuals and teams on leadership and organizational health.

Jenni is the author of several books, including Clout: Discover and Unleash Your God-Given Influence and The 4 Dimensions of Extraordinary Leadership.

Disclosure: Some of the links above are affiliate links, meaning there is no additional cost to you, but I will earn a small commission if you use the links to make a purchase.